compac 18 sailboat

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• Sailboat Guide

Com-Pac 19 is a 18 ′ 11 ″ / 5.8 m monohull sailboat designed by Robert K. Johnson and built by Com-Pac Yachts starting in 1979.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Photo courtesy Adam Hunt.

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• Sailboat Reviews

Cruising the Com-Pac 35

Photos by Gerry Hutchins

Com-Pac Yachts is a Florida boat builder with a particularly interesting history. The company was formed in 1957 by W. L. Hutch Hutchins Sr., an entrepreneurial tool-and-die maker who operated a metal-stamping and fabrication shop in St. Louis, Missouri. A successful inventor, he created everything from automobile accessories, including the Ah-ooo-gah horn often retrofitted on Model A Fords, to a unique folding high-chair.

In 1970, Hutchins converted a personal interest in sailing into a corporate endeavor when he commissioned Clark Mills to design the Com-Pac Yacht, a 16-footer capable of being shipped in a box. Mills is most famous for designing the Windmill and Optimist prams. Hutchinss goal was to build a small but highly efficient sailboat that could easily be trailered behind a compact car.

The first boat, constructed in 1974, was trailered by Hutchins behind a Ford Pinto. The company eventually introduced several small models, ranging in size from 19 to 23 feet. Bob Johnson of Island Packet and Charley Morgan were employed as designers of the companys three cruisers, the Com-Pac 25-, 27-, and 35-footers. A line of catboats was introduced in 1999, and the companys production has since shifted in the direction of these and other smaller boats.

Com-Pac loosely categorizes its boats into four classes. Its trailerable catboats include the 14-foot Picnic Cat; the 17-foot Sun Cat (available in three configurations-a full cabin, a cuddy cabin, and an open cockpit); and the 20-foot Horizon Cat, based on the classic Cape Cod catboat design (also available with a larger cockpit, and renamed the Horizon Day Cat). Its trailerable sloops include a 16.5-daysailer called the Legacy and the Com-Pac Eclipse, a 21-foot micro-cruiser.

The only Com-Pac cruiser listed on the companys website today is the Com-Pac 27/3, a 6,000-pound-displacement coastal cruiser, but Com-Pac still has the molds to the 35. A lack of orders in recent years has led to some discussion about dropping the design from the lineup, but for now, it remains in production.

Brothers Rich and Gerry Hutchins now run the company. Rich has worked for Com-Pac since his childhood, once running the metal shop in St. Louis. Younger brother Gerry is a graduate engineer who began his career at Gulfstar.

The Com-Pac 35 is regarded as a semi-custom boat, so owners are allowed some latitude in selecting the accommodations. Production is limited to four to or five boats per year, but it has been several years since they have had any orders, according to the maker. The bulk of Com-Pacs boat-building orders these days are for the smaller daysailers. During its peak production run, the Com-Pac 35 represented about 25 percent of the companys boatbuilding production.

Com-Pac operates as a combination manufacturing and assembly plant, since hulls for the larger boats are laminated off-site by JMJ Fiberglass, which specializes in fiberglass and has had a 15-year relationship with Com-Pac.

Were not interested in being in the glass business, because its a specialized business and requires a huge commitment for space, Rich Hutchins explained. However, we dictate lamination schedules, and store and maintain the molds between production runs. (We found fiberglass and gelcoat surfaces on our test boat to be smooth, with no evidence of print-through or crazing.)

The Com-Pac manufacturing facility comprises three buildings housing assembly areas, and metal and wood shops. Dealers are located in most major sailing ports. The company has delivered boats to the Great Lakes and all three U.S. coasts. Many 35s are currently cruising the waters of the Caribbean and the Florida Keys.

The target market for the 35-footer is the experienced sailor stepping up from a smaller boat who wants to sail offshore.

Designed by Charley Morgan, the 35 was introduced 24 years ago as a 33-footer with a standard transom. However, when the market demanded the addition of a swim platform, the molds were retooled, and the stern swept aft, adding one foot to the waterline.

She is a traditional, beamy cruiser, Rich Hutchins explained, typical of Charleys designs.

Morgan divided the design criteria into four elements: She had to have a shoal draft, be stable and sea kindly, and fast enough to give good results under PHRF rules. To that end, Morgan combined a large sailplan with moderate displacement, a long waterline, generous beam, and a Scheel keel.

The patented (Henry) Scheel keel design is wider at the bottom of the keel than in the middle section. It widens again at the top where it joins the hull, so that the cross-section resembles an elongated chemistry flask. The width is achieved through a gentle, concave curve. As with a wing keel, or bulb keel, the broad section at the bottom creates a large area to place ballast down low. The bottom is curved to reduce drag at the base of the keel.

Proponents claim a Scheel keel will work better to windward than other shoal-draft designs, but once you start reducing the leading edge of a keel, the gains in performance are slight. In our opinion, the wing versus Scheel keel debate should be more focused on practicality, and at least, the Scheel keel is less likely to foul a rode or snag a reef than some wing designs.

Rich Hutchins described the shoal-draft Scheel keel as the perfect keel for a cruising boat, compared to a full keel. The design incorporates a wide trunk that runs to a significantly wider foot filled with lead ingots. The design provides excellent lift, allows the boat to turn in her length, and to access shallow anchorages.

The Com-Pac 35 displaces 12,500 pounds, of which 5,700 pounds is ballast. The sail area to displacement ratio is 17.2, typical of this breed of boat, and the displacement to length ratio is 232.5-a moderately light ratio. We expect it to outperform many similarly sized performance cruisers, although the shoal draft does limit its windward performance compared to deeper keel boats.

The Com-Pac 35s profile reflects Morgans keen eye for aesthetics. The boat has slightly sloping sheerline accented by a bowsprit that lends a traditional look while increasing the sailplan. The sprit also facilitates the use of large light-air sails, eliminating the need for a spinnaker pole and associated gear.

The rather high-profile cabintop, which is 18 inches tall, creates headroom below while providing light and ventilation through five ports.

A teak eyebrow, and two teak handrails running the length of the cabintop add just enough brightwork to give the appearance of a cruising boat, without making it high maintenance.

Photo by David Leo

Deck Layout

Sailhandling arrangements feature internal halyards, a mast free of winches, and sail controls led aft to rope clutches. The single-spreader spar is made by Charleston Spars, and standing rigging is wire.

Halyards are led through Harken turning blocks installed at the base of the mast to Spinlock XT rope clutches. The main traveler sits on a heavy stainless-steel bracket attached to a 6-inch-tall molded fiberglass pod at the front of the companionway. The traveler, which is 14 inches above the cabintop, avoids chafing the gelcoat.

Coachroof winches are Harken two-speed 32s, while primary winches are Harken two-speed 40s. The headsail-trimming tracks are located on the rail. They are 68 inches long, enough to produce proper sheet-lead options for an oversized genoa or a blade.

Deck hardware standard equipment includes a Hood furler, though our test boat was equipped with an optional Profurl. Not our favorite furler (see PS August 2009 online), Profurl models have held up well over the years, so long as the high-carbon steel bearings are monitored for corrosion.

The 34-inch-long bowsprit supports a beefy stainless-steel plate 24 inches long and 12 inches wide, fitted with double anchor rollers. It appears to be sturdy enough to support the loads of two anchors.

Theres room between the stem and the forward end of the cabin trunk for a dinghy on deck, or for stretching out.

Stanchions are only 25 inches high, too short for our taste, especially since the toerail is only an inch tall. The decks on our test boat were covered with a heavy dew, so we appreciated the very aggressive nonskid on the deck, cabintop, seats, and coaming.

The boat is well-ventilated. Two 20-inch by 14-inch hatches are located on the bow, and pairs are mounted under the boom and at the aft end of the cabintop. Add a companionway measuring 38 inches long when open and dorade boxes near the front of the companionway, and fresh air moves easily into all spaces belowdecks. This is a boat naturally equipped to deal with the heat of a Florida summer.

The T-shaped cockpit is well laid out and comfortable. It measures 44 inches from wheel to companionway and 25 inches between seats. The well is 15 inches deep. Seats are only 50 inches long, adequate for seating two adults but too short for stretching out for a nap.

Stereo speakers are built into a recessed cubby in the coaming where they are safely out of the way; a second cubby with fiddles provides storage for winch handles and sunscreen.

The helmsman is elevated by a slightly arched seat aft of a 36-inch destroyer-style stainless wheel. Theres good visibility over the top of the wheel. Like many builders, Com-Pac installs oval-shaped teak seats on the stern corners, offering a comfortable perch for daysailing.

Standard equipment in the galley is an alcohol stove, which Rich Hutchins said meets the needs of most owners and satisfies those with a concern about the volatility of propane (LPG). While many owners are content with the wick-style alcohol stoves (particularly those who seldom bake), the advantages of LPG became clear in our review of marine stoves (see PS July 2007 online). LPG remains our preferred means of cooking onboard for longer-term cruising, so long as the owner is serious about properly storing and using LPG onboard (see PS March 2014).

Aboard the Com-Pac 35, the optional propane tank is located in the open area beneath the helmsmans seat. Any leaked gas can drain into a scupper below the seat. Compared to other dedicated propane lockers, this is more exposed. Wed like to see more protection for the tank and gauge.

The starboard lazarette is cavernous. It provides storage for sails or an inflatable dinghy, and access to the steering unit and through-hulls. A 30-gallon aluminum fuel tank is located aft of the engine, leaving space for a heater or generator.

One owner reported that he had to replace his fuel tank, due to pin-holes in the bottom caused by poultice corrosion. On his boat, the tank rested on a plywood base that absorbed moisture-a construction no-no. The new tank was placed on a non-hydrodscopic Starboard, preventing potential future poultice corrosion problems.

A three-cylinder Westerbeke 27-horsepower diesel is standard on the Com-Pac 35. The engine fits very snugly in a soundproofed compartment, making it a challenge to work on, in our opinion. Rich Hutchins disagrees.

One Com-Pac 35 owner told us that checking the oil level is easy, but that changing the oil is more difficult and checking the water-pump impeller is a chore.

In order to create space in the aft cabin below, the port lazarette is only 8 inches deep. However, its 30 inches long and 17 inches wide, and provides good stowage for fenders, lines, and other oft-used items. This is actually a better arrangement than having to invert ones self, digging for something that has migrated to the deepest part of a voluminous locker.

Considering the extensive list of standard gear, our overall impression is that the boat is well-equipped. The boat owner interested in improving performance will want add a vang, an inboard track for smaller headsails, an adjustable backstay, and perhaps spinnaker gear.

Accommodations

The Com-Pac 35 is spacious, well-arranged, and nicely finished belowdecks. Standing headroom is 6 feet, 4 inches. Access, however, is down a relatively steep ladder.

The head is to starboard at the foot of the companionway, and the nav station is forward. Also to starboard are two heavily upholstered swivel chairs surrounding an entertainment center. One chair swivels to provide a seat for the navigator, who sits opposite the L-shaped galley, which is located to port.

The entertainment center houses a cocktail table, TV/VCR combination, AM-FM radio, and CD player, all standard equipment. Two halogen reading lights to starboard and three to port provide excellent lighting. Sleeping cabins are to port in the stern and in the bow.

The centerpiece of the main saloon is an L-shaped settee and dining table hinged to the forward bulkhead. The table is large enough for four adults. When out of service, it swings up to enclose a large cabinet mounted on the bulkhead, significantly increasing the space available for storing plates and cutlery. The cabinet, 10 inches deep and 20 inches wide, with six compartments, is very well made-one of the best weve seen.

With the tabletop stowed, the space converts to a 6 foot by 8 foot conversation pit. The settee also folds out to make a wide, 72-inch-long berth.

The galley has some interesting wrinkles. A hinged board on the aft bulkhead drops to cover the stove, producing a 24-inch by 42-inch countertop adjacent to the reefer/dry locker. Double stainless sinks are standard, as is a microwave. Another unique feature is a hinged shelf at the inboard end of the counter that rotates downward to provide a drink tray for the galley slave.

Storage for pots and pans is below the stove, which, on our test boat, was a two-burner LPG Hillerange stove-oven combination, a $1,360 option.

The head has a shower with a seat separated from the main area by a half-height plexiglass partition. Adding a curtain would help keep spray out of the main compartment. There is a great deal of potential storage space in the fiberglass panliner beneath the seat. Some owners have used deck-plates or small plastic access hatches to create more storage there.

The port stateroom aft is rather spartan, consisting of a double berth and hanging locker; its ventilated by hatches overhead and in the cockpit. Clearance between the top of the berth and the bottom of the cockpit is a meager 21 inches.

The forward stateroom is enclosed by a door with an arched top, a nice touch. Furnishings include a small seat to starboard, a hanging locker large enough for four sets of foulies, and storage shelves running the length of the compartment. The berth measures 84 inches wide at the head and 76 inches on centerline.

On balance, we think Morgan did an excellent job of apportioning space, since two-thirds of the boats living spaces are in the cockpit and saloon. The cockpit seats six comfortably; space for four, possibly six diners is adequate, and sleeping quarters are large enough for an extended cruise.

The swivel chairs and L-shaped settees are a poor choice for offshore passagemaking; theyre better suited for sailing from port to port alongshore.

Performance

With assistance from Max Heller of SeaCraft Yachts in Seattle, we tested the boat on Lake Union on relatively flat water. It motored easily and quietly at 5 knots; company literature indicates that itll do 8 knots under power at top speed with the standard Westerbeke. While leaving the dock with a light breeze on the beam, the boat easily backed up in straight line. A three-blade propeller stops it quickly, and the boat spins 360 degrees in one boat-length.

We sailed under full main and a 135-percent genoa on the furler. In 6 to 8 knots of wind, it sailed easily at 5 to 5.5 knots,; it buried a shoulder and squirted forward in the occasional puff. The boat was surprisingly nimble considering its design and displacement; it sails well to weather and tacks quickly. The Scheel keel produced a stiff ride-a surprise on a shallow-draft cruising boat.

One owner told us he cannot beat inside 100 degrees, but we matched that number easily, and think a properly tuned rig and well-cut sails will produce 90- to 95-degree tacking angles consistent with a sloop. It cannot, however, be expected to perform on par with a competitive fin-keel boat. PHRF numbers in various fleets range from 147 to 167.

Since we saw 5-plus knots of boatspeed in light air, we suspect performance in moderate winds will be solid. Morgan described a downwind sail under spinnaker in heavy seas on the Gulf of Mexico during which the boat recorded bursts of 11-knot speed. Thats well outside the average curve for a 35-foot, moderate-displacement cruiser.

Conclusions

The boats speed and maneuverability in light air was impressive. In this case, the Scheel keel provides shoal draft with minimal cost to performance. The boat points well and goes as fast as other boats that we might call moderate-performance cruisers.

The deck layout is typical of its contemporaries, and its easy to move about the deck to handle sails. Accommodations belowdecks are spacious and reflect the builders attention to detail. The Com-Pac 35 is outfitted with an extensive list of standard gear that includes sails and furler, deck gear, well-equipped galley, television/stereo/CD players and speakers. Add a downwind sail, electronics package, and autopilot, and its ready for extended cruising.

The boat, which listed for about $150,000 in 2001, has held its value relatively well. The limited production run keeps it under the radar of most boat searches, which has neither hurt nor helped prices. In some respects, it is a niche boat, holding particularly strong appeal to a couple who wants to sneak into shallower areas of the Bahamas or slip in and out of the Intracoastal Waterway without fear of running aground, or resorting to a centerboard.

Morgans long years on the west coast of Florida and familiarity in the Bahamas showed him early on that some of the best nooks and crannies are off limits to a boat that draws more than 5 feet. Com-Pac has done a good job keeping the boat practical to sail, nice to look at, and not a chore to maintain.

• Constructing the Com-Pac 35

• Com-Pac Yachts
• Morgan yacht Connection

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Com-Pac 16 - a good sail?

• Thread starter mdsdurango
• Start date Apr 24, 2013
• Brand-Specific Forums

I was attracted to a very sweet little Compac 16 on the internet that sold before I got there. I've been actively searching for a small trailer able boat and like the looks of these little boats but - how do they sail? Are they Fun? Fast? Stable? Safe? Asking all Compac 16 owner to chime in. Thanks, Mike  

sailingandsuch

Although I'm not a Compac 16 owner, I'll chime in anyhow. Before I got my little gem of a boat I was considering a Compac 16 as an option and I liked it. I have been around a few but never sailing on one. One thing I like to do is read about adventures in small sailboats. I read a few of people on Compac 16's, here are the links if your interested. A lot of times they will give hints of how the boat handles and sails in their journals. http://www.adventurevista.com/Cruising-Florida-2010.php http://www.valsimon.com/SailingtotheBahamas.htm  

I just took my 1978 Com-Pac 16 out for the first time yesterday. She was quick, stable and fun. I had three adults and two kids on board with light winds and we were doing 6 mph. When we caught the wind gusts she listed over, but we were never close to flipping. I will probably have to order one of those owners manuals I keep hearing about, but a couple of morons who never sailed more than a Sunfish figured it out and had a blast.  

I have just bought one, haven't taken it out yet still trying to gather a few things to get it ready to go out.  

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Posted 2024-03-31 19:37

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2008 COMPAC SUNCAT CATBOAT SAILBOAT - $9,900 (Huntington)

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2008 COMPAC SUNCAT CATBOAT SAILBOAT - boats - by owner - marine sale...

This is a 2008 Forest Green Suncat in good condition. New halyards and mainsheet last year. New 12 ply tires with <100 miles. The sail is about 4 years old, but has very little use. Includes,...

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Looking for a stable 15-18' sailboat

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I rented a Hobie Wave at a resort and thought it was too much fun to not do again. Looking around for similarly built cats I decided that Hobie Getaway would be perfect for me, but it's too rich for my blood new and not available used where I live (upstate NY). Looking around the used sailboat market, the most similar choice that is widely available is Hobie 16, but it seems to have a hotrod reputation where a newbie sailor is as likely to flip it as not. I might take that chance myself, but I want to be able to put my boys on the boat and not freak them out so they never go near it again. I found a nice solid Chrysler Buccaneer and an MFG Sidewinder that will be a bit more of a project. Both boats look rather similar to my eye as far as shape goes, though what do I know. Would much appreciate advice on which boat would be more stable and whether they would be more stable than a Hobie 16 - keep in mind I am a rather clueless newbie looking to start slow. Any other suggestions for easily transportable and easily riggable 15-18' boat type would also be greatly appreciated.  

Only way to go slow, and more stable is to change design types... Pretty much ALL centerboard monohulls will feel slower, than your cat... but they probably are LESS stable (I know counter intuitive). Want REALLY stable? pick a tri-maran. But honestly what you might want to consider is a swing keel boat, or really ANY keel boat. Want a real stable 18 foot, monohull? Sorry I link to this only to show you what one looks like not to show you an ad - Victoria 18. Victoria 18 sailboat for sale It also has really nice lines. Capri 18, Compac 19, Precision 18... Compac 16, Precision 165... these will be stable trailer sailor 16-18 foot boats... ALL of them will feel like slugs compared to a Hobie. Nothing wrong with going to keelboat to get some stability for sailing. The Buccaneer, is a really fast centerboard boat, but I wouldn't call it "stable." Nor is a lightning, or thistle, or any number of other small centerboarders. Don't get me wrong these are great boats to learn on, but you have to acknowledge that they can capsize, and that is part of the learning. If you want something that likely won't ever capsize, again, go keelboat.  

I'm guessing you will be trailering which means you will need to rig each time you launch. Stability was also a big need for me as I like to sail with my wife and we are relatively new too. Check out American Sail. They have an American 14.6 and an 18 (centerboard monohulls). Open cockpit sloops, easy/quick to rig and built for more relaxed sailing rather than racing. I will each everyone here in that these types of boats are going to be slow compared to cats, but they make up for it in that you can actually bring things with you easily (ie radio cooler etc). Good luck!  

Your kids will most likely have less fear then you! Get them good PFDs and let them "have at it!" Smaller cats and some dinghy type boats are easy to right if they have flotation. Sailboats (keel type) are not stable in the sense of standing on a boat dock. The more sailboats lean over the more they resist "going over" because of weight of the keel or ballast and hull design; "weebels wobble but they don't fall down" Rounded, vee bottom, flare sided boats, canoes, even rocking chairs have what is called Secondary stability. "Stable" boats like pontoon and catamaran types don't tip but when they do they reach a point where they just go over. (initial stability) Boats with flat bottoms (skiffs, some power boats) also feel "stable" until they lean or are leaned over to the point of no return. Most people new or feeling that uneasy feeling we've all had, want that initial stability because it feels safe. Only after practice and learning or pushing the envelope do we learn that when a sailboat leans it's because of it's secondary stability. Many people never get used to that "boaty feeling" of secondary stability in sailing. Even the famous saying "Never stand up in a canoe" instills that primal fear of "going over" I owned my boat 2 years before I got used to it's leaning over. (heeling) And I did know (in the back of my mind) that the more she leaned the more she would resist "going over" good reading here; Stability Explained  

how old are your boys. mine sailed on our cat since they were about 5. If you want a good cat for the money go with a Prindle or Hobie 18. they are lot more stable then the Hobie 16. Prindle 16 is a good choice more stable then the Hobie 16 and a little easier to rig then a 18  

Monohulls and multihulls are such different animals. As such, you owe it to yourself to research (and experience) their differences BEFORE deciding on which type you want to own. In the monohull camp you would be hard-pressed to find something more stable, forgiving and quick than a Flying Scot. The Bucc you mentioned may also be a good choice - I've never sailed one - but I know of a fellow who collected a fleet of them for his sailing school. They likely aren't as dry as a Scot but have a hull design apparently derivative of a Laser. In any case, try to imagine how easy it is to get back aboard after righting the boat as capsizing will be part of your learning curve. This is why I think Lasers are great to learn on. In the multihull camp, I'd recommend a Prindle over a Hobie 16 for several reasons. Better build quality, a tad more buoyancy in the bows so pitchpoling is less likely, and a lower center of effort in the sail plan for more stability. In general, beach cats can be trickier to tack than monohulls of the same size, so you may want to seek out some instruction for that maneuver. Good luck!  

Michael K said: The Bucc you mentioned may also be a good choice - I've never sailed one - but I know of a fellow who collected a fleet of them for his sailing school. They likely aren't as dry as a Scot but have a hull design apparently derivative of a Laser. Click to expand...

mgoltsman said: ...or if the Buccaneer is notoriously shifty on a jibe, or if either of them takes forever to rig, that's what I would like to know.... Right now I am leaning towards the Buccaneer because I hear it is among the more forgiving performance dinghies, and it is still in production so parts should be available much easier than for the AMF Sidewinder. Click to expand...

mgoltsman:1057108 said: Of the suggestions above, I think a Prindle 16 would be a much better choice for me than a Hobie 16 - I am a 210 lbs. tub-o-lard, so a Hobie 16 might simply not carry me. Oh, and @CaribDream: I am in Rochester, NY - I think that still counts as upstate unless for you Long Islanders civilization ends 100 miles up the Hudson Click to expand...

CaribDream said: Hey! I take offense to the 210 lb remark LOL. Ah.... finally someone who understands there IS more to NY State than NYC!!! I went to school at RIT. Grew up about 2+ hours north of Syracuse. Click to expand...

I've got a put a vote in for the H16. I've owned Hobie 16s for about 30 years. My current ride is 26 years old. This is the first thread in which I've ever heard anyone knock the quality of an H16. My boat has sailed thru it all from lakes to ocean, from screaming winds to get out the paddle. Even launched it off more breakers in Barnegat Inlet than I want to admit to and thru it all not one gear failure or boat problem. And, after all that time the boat still looks terrific!!!! The H16 IS a stable platform. I taught my 4 kids to sail on it. That said, it is meant to be sailed to the edge of control. Because of this some might say the boat has some bad habits. It will flip over- if you aren't flipping the boat on a regualr basis you aren't trying hard enough!!!! it is meant to be sailed fast and hard. if you sail it that way it's gonna go over every now and then. OTOH you don't have to sail it that way. For a three year period when my children were very young, the boat didn't flip once. Why didn't we flip the boat? Because we didn't sail it to the edge of control. We took fun family day sails. The boat's speed and heel angle are totally controlable. The point being, whoever is telling you the boat is unstable or has uncontrolable bad habits is not telling it like it is. The boat is almost half as wide as it is long. Stable it is! The biggie in bad habits is the pitch pole. The boat can be pitch poled. Geez a Flying Scot can be pitchpoled! With the H16, again, controlable. In 30 years i can count how many times I've pitchpoled with two fingers. Does it happen? Yes! Is it a likely event? No! At least if you know how to avoid it. And it is easily avoidable in conditions that would cause it by triming the boat. We raced the boat for years ansd never tripped in a regatta racing it with the hammmer down! These days you can even buy attachments for the bows that will help prevent pitchpole. So pitch poling an H16 is a non starter in the for/against buy decision. Hobie16 vs Prindle - Prindle is a fine boat as is the Nacra 5.2. But IMO, the H16 is more user friendly. Less sharp edges higher drier ride, more parts availability, easier set up, etc. Beyond that the H16 is an excellent teaching platform. And of course it is a blast to sail!!!  

@TJC45 - thanks for the advice! Exactly the sort of thing I wanted to hear. I will still look at a Prindle 16 just to compare, but this is exactly what I hoped to hear - that H16 is not as unwieldy as its reputation, except when you taunt it. In terms of availability, H16 is certainly the easy answer - even in our quiet neck of the woods at least a dozen change hands each season. And the two that I saw so far look new despite being 30 years old! By the way, the Wave I rented at a resort - being a noob boat - had this spiffy bubble on top of its mast to prevent turtling. Do you know if something like that is available/possible for the H16? My biggest fear is that I flip it, bungle my first attempt to right it and end up digging that long mast into the silt 20" under water. One last thing - do you think being on the heavier side might make H16 less of a fit for me? Those hulls look pretty slim and wickedly sickle-shaped - seems like my 200 lbs plus another 200 libs worth of kids (of course I would not dream of racing with such a load) might submerge the tramp! What might be a great platform for a 150 lbs sailor might not be so fitting for a heavier crew!  

Your weight is not an issue. Minimum racing weight on an H16 is (i think) 285 pounds. It takes about 260 pounds to right the boat in dead air. With the wind going one of your kids would have a fair shot at getting it righted once the air is under the sail. Regardless, i weigh in at 225 and have never been lighter than 195 in my time with the boat. Not to brag but only to make a point, I have won my share of races with this boat and even managed a couple regatta wins. Also a bunch of second and third place finishes in all classes. So, not only was the boat more than able to carry my fat butt around the race course, it had to carry a crew member as well. Not only did it carry us, we won!!! ( sailing knowledge, boat trim, racing strategy, and luck wins over lowest boat weight) BTW Hobie 16s race in three classes, A, B, and C. C is the starter class. B intermediate and A is down and dirty as serious as it gets sailboat racing. Depending on location a regatta could draw anywhere from 30 to 150 boats. That was then this is now, where a good draw would be 50 boats. Still, as i worked my way up thru the classes I often found myself on starting lines with 50 or 60 boats in my class. A class would pit me against two dozen expert level sailors. Today there could be a dozen or more boats on the line. Point being - the level of competition made us into really good sailors. And all the gained wisdom is transferable to other boats and racing venues. The mast float - pluses and minuses - Plus - it will keep the mast floating and prevent a turtle. Turning turtle is only a problem in dangerous seaways or in places as you describe where the boat can get the mast almost all the way round but not quite there. Sticking the mast is a bigger problem than turning turtle. So that's the big plus, one less worry. The negative is levered weight on the end of the mast. When righting the boat physics works against you by adding that levered weight at the end of a long swing arm. Personally I've never seen anyone have a problem righting the boat with the Bob on the mast, but it is a point of discussion. Hobie masts are sealed. That being the case I've never turtled the boat. But it is something that can happen. If the Mast float gives you peace of mind - go for it!!!!  

If you google "mast floats" you will find several of those bubble-type things. Mast Floats and Catamaran Righting Gear from Sailsport Marine The club I'm in uses them on the daysailers. They present some windage and will slow you down a bit, so on the racing MCs we have a flotation jacket that slides over the top of the sail.  

One other thing - the H16 hull shape is asymmetrical. Rounded on the center facing face and flat on the outer face. Because the H16 doesn't have dagger boards resistance is created as the heeling pushes the flat outside face of the lee hull against the water. In theory this creates resistance. As effective as a dagger board? Nope! But it works pretty good!!! The boat goes forward in a hurry. Especially at its most effective heeling angle - which is the windward hull just out of the water. Friction reduced ,hammer down, go for it!!!! Lastly, just to put things into perspective - the H16 is still a widely raced boat, with a very active class association. But, it has been surpassed by technology. Compared to the F16 cats of today it's like comparing a 67 Mustang GT with a 2014 Shelby 500. The 67 is cool, it's fast for it's day and will still pin you to the seat today. But the Shelby - it will make your eyes bleed! So if you've got the need for speed and about 15 or 20 grand to spend, you can go faster than an H16.  

TJC45 said: Compared to the F16 cats of today it's like comparing a 67 Mustang GT with a 2014 Shelby 500. The 67 is cool, it's fast for it's day and will still pin you to the seat today. But the Shelby - it will make your eyes bleed! So if you've got the need for speed and about 15 or 20 grand to spend, you can go faster than an H16. Click to expand...

What about a West Wight Potter or Montgomery 17? They are in a bit of a different category, but you may find them enjoyable as well  

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March 27, 2024 - Baltimore Key Bridge collapse

By Kathleen Magramo , Antoinette Radford, Alisha Ebrahimji , Maureen Chowdhury , Elise Hammond , Tori B. Powell and Aditi Sangal , CNN

Our live coverage of the Baltimore bridge collapse has moved here .

Here's what you should know about the Key Bridge collapse

From CNN staff

Officials recovered the bodies of two construction workers who were on Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge when it collapsed early Tuesday morning after a 984-foot-long cargo ship collided into a pillar.

Maryland Gov. Wes Moore called the collapse Wednesday " a global crisis ."

"The national economy and the world's economy depends on the Port of Baltimore. The port handles more cars and more farm equipment than any other port in the country," Moore said.

Here's what you should know:

• The victims: The six people who are presumed dead were from Mexico Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras, according to Col. Roland L. Butler Jr, the superintendent of Maryland State Police. Two bodies were recovered and have been identified as Alejandro Hernandez Fuentes from Mexico and Dorlian Ronial Castillo Cabrera from Guatemala. The two workers were filling potholes on the bridge and were later found trapped in a red pickup truck in about 25 feet of water, Butler said. The FBI is handling notifying the victims' families, Butler said.
• Recovery efforts: Authorities are pausing search efforts for the four other workers who are presumed dead, because additional vehicles are encased in concrete and other debris, making it unsafe for divers, Butler said. Once salvage operations clear the debris, divers will search for more remains, he said.
• The investigation: The National Transportation Safety Board is leading the investigation into the fatal incident, according to the agency's chair Jennifer Homendy. During a Wednesday news conference, Homendy said there were 21 crew members and two pilots on board the Dali cargo ship when it crashed into the bridge. She also said a senior NTSB hazmat investigator identified 56 containers of hazardous material, and that some containers are in the water. The agency received six hours of voyage data from the ship and the investigation could take 12 to 24 months to complete, Homendy said. She emphasized that NTSB will not analyze information collected or provide conclusions while on scene of the collapse.
• Looking forward: Department of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said rebuilding the bridge will not be "quick or easy" but that it will get done. He said there are four main focus points ahead: reopening the port, dealing with supply chain issues until its reopening, rebuilding the bridge and dealing with traffic issues until the bridge is rebuilt. Biden  pledged the full support  of the federal government in the response and recovery efforts. His administration has already conveyed a sense of urgency to open up federal funding to remove debris and ultimately rebuild the bridge. Maryland has submitted a request to the Biden administration for emergency relief funds "to assist in our work going forward," Moore said Wednesday.

It's almost impossible to place people on the bow of ship due to the unstable structure, fire official says

 From CNN's Sarah Engel

Baltimore City Fire Chief James Wallace said Wednesday that the cargo ship's bridge structure and containers at the bow remain unstable.

"It's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, and very dangerous, to place people on the bow of that boat right now," Wallace told CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

"Naturally, we're still very cognizant of the fact that there are hazardous materials on board the vessel itself," Wallace said, alluding to the National Transportation Safety Board saying earlier that 56 containers were carrying hazardous materials.

Wallace said his team is relying heavily on aerial recognizance, including drones. "That's the only way we're able to see in," he said.  

He added that the aerial surveillance has "been able to really assure us right now we have no [chemical] reactions on board." 

"It's just utter devastation," NTSB chief says of the bridge collapse site

From CNN's Aditi Sangal

Jennifer Homendy, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, called the site of the Key Bridge collapse "devastating."

"It's pretty devastating, certainly, seeing not just what's going on with the cargo containers, but just looking at what was a bridge span — three bridge spans that is pretty much gone. It's just utter devastation," she said at Wednesday evening's news briefing.

She added that she is thinking of families who lost loved ones and those who are waiting to reunite with their lived ones.

NTSB interviewed the Dali's captain and some other crew members today, agency chief says

The National Transportation Safety Board has interviewed the ship's captain, his mate, the chief engineer and one other engineer today, according to Chair Jennifer Homendy.

The two pilots on board the Dali at the time of collision will be interviewed tomorrow, she added.

Cargo ship's voyage data recorder is basic when compared to an airplane's, NTSB chair says

From CNN's Tori B. Powell

The voyage data recorder on the cargo ship Dali was a "newer model" but is considered basic when compared to that on an airplane, according to National Transportation Safety Board Chair Jennifer Homendy.

"But it is very basic compared to say, a flight data recorder, where we would have 1,000 parameters," she said at a news conference on Wednesday.

The NTSB chief investigator Marcel Muise added:

"It's not a ship-wide system recorder, so most of the sensors that are being recorded are from the bridge. So things like GPS, the audio, rudder feedback, rudder commands are recorded on there. But not engineering, the temperature of each cylinder, power distribution sensors."

There were no tug boats with Dali at the time of the collision. That's normal, NTSB chief says

There were no tugs with Dali when the cargo vessel collided with Baltimore's Key Bridge, which is normal protocol, according to National Transportation Safety Board Chair Jennifer Homendy.

Remember: At 01:26:39 on Tuesday, Dali's pilot made a general very high frequency (VHF) radio call for tugs in the vicinity to assist, the NTSB investigator Marcel Muise had said.

"The tugs help the vessel leave the dock, leave the port and get into the main ship channel. And then they leave. Once it's on its way, it's a straight shot through the channel. So there are no tugs with the vessel at the time. So they were calling for tugs," she said.

NTSB chair says she saw some containers that were carrying hazardous materials in the water

National Transportation Safety Board Chair Jennifer Homendy said she did see some of the 56 containers that were carrying hazardous materials in the water.

When asked how many

When asked how many containers of hazardous materials were in the water, Homendy said:

"I did see some containers in the water, and some breached significantly on the vessel itself," she said. "I don't have an exact number, but it's something that we can provide in an update."

Homendy said that a preliminary report should be out in two to four weeks.

This post has been updated with more quotes from Homendy.

Bridge did not have any redundancy, unlike the preferred method for building bridges today, NTSB chair says

Baltimore's Key Bridge did not have any redundancy, which is included in the preferred method of building bridges in the present day, according to National Transportation Safety Board Chair Jennifer Homendy.

"The bridge is a fracture critical," she explained. "What that means is if a member fails that would likely cause a portion of, or the entire bridge, to collapse, there's no redundancy. The preferred method for building bridges today is that there is redundancy built in, whether that's transmitting loads to another member or some sort of structural redundancy. This bridge did not have redundancy," Homendy said.

There are 17,468 fracture critical bridges in the United States out of 615,000 bridges total, she said, citing the Federal Highway Administration.

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