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Seaforth Sailboat

Discussion in ' Sailboats ' started by hunter65 , Jan 23, 2004 .

hunter65 Junior Member

I'm looking at buying a 1980 Seaforth double-ender. It is in exelent condition and is 24ft LOA. barrier coated and is $6,900. Is this to much to pay for this boat? Is there anyplace that has information about Seaforths. All brand new gear is included with a trailer  

PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

At this size and money asked, I'd wonder about the value of a surveyor, but . . . You could get the "HIN" off her stern and run down the manufacture code to see if the outfit is still in business. The first 3 digits of the "HIN" (located near the rail starboard side aft on double enders) can be used to track down the manufacture on the USCG's list of recognized builders. If out of business, and not a big surprise after the building craze died so did many boat companies back then, you may find out something about the reputation of their trailer yachts. In lue of this, ask around the areas marinas, check on line to see if another one is for sale and talk with the owner. This isn't a bunch of money, but enough to get a real bad taste in you mouth if you guess wrong. This is why a surveyor is such a good thing it beats guessing at the very least and the current owner may pickup some or all of the cost. When you say "all brand new gear" does this include the engine, electrical, plumbing, electronics, sails, winches, rigging, cleats, fairleads, blocks, everything or does it mean the sails and standing rigging have been replaced, maybe a few trailer rollers? This is where a survey really shines, you'll learn things the owner doesn't even know . . . Good Luck  

I belive its all brand new rigging(He rerigged it for solo sailing). The engine is a diseal, and The boat he's selling is the older of his two boats.  

gonzo Senior Member

A survey and valuation would answer your questions. It is difficult to say witout inspecting the boat.  

New rig for single handing isn't all new gear, just a few pieces of running rigging. I see non big brand boats this age, going for a lot less then near 7 grand. Have you sailed the boat? How do those sails look and set? 24 year old standing rigging isn't something I'd trust, how do those terminals look? Any stains running down the cabin ceiling or liner? Stress cracks? Egged out holes in the tabernacle pivot hole or terminal ends and rig tangs? Hours on the engine? Not sure what of all I'm asking about? Would you spend this money on a car and not have a mechanic look it over, before your child took it off to collage? Me neither . . . Call a pro or don't cry if you get beat up.  

The boat is in very good condition and i just talked to him and he just had it refiber glassed about a year ago. Yes i have sailed it and its very very good handles well. no water stains in or on the cabin and the cleats are also all new (all new rigging also) plus he's willing to throw in all brand new sails (the current ones are 4yrs old). The trailer is also newer about 4yrs old also. The owner is a good friend of my fathers and has helped him restore several boats of his (my dad found an old X boat with a wooden hull). Its a night sleeper and has all the stuff needed for night sailing. plus I am pretty sure it comes with a slip in Lake Winnebago.  

Why did they re-fiberglass the boat? Usually it is an indication of structural problems.  

Sounds like you've no need for advice here. "Re-glassed" sounds like blister repair, this may be a common problem for the model as it is for many yachts of that era. Check for stress cracks in high load areas, like the surrounding glass where cleats and winches are mounted, corners of cabins and comings, hard turns in the glass, like where the cabin sides meet the deck or the turn of the deck cap over the deck/hull joint. Cracks at chain plates and radiating out from the screws holding the rub strip to the hull/deck joint. The slip could be a great selling point, if you get it for some time. Slip fees have gone up as much as the national dept in recent years, making for a sweet deal. Have the engine checked out, they cost a bunch to have fixed. Get the new sails and the deal should hinge on them as it's another big expense you don't want to have to make. Seems a bit excessive for a diesel in such a small craft. I'm putting a deck on a Catalina 24 and it runs to hull speed with a 5 horse kicker on it's transom. If it's a fat, deep bellied craft, she may need 10 or more horses and the diesel is the safe way to go, if a bit heavy, smoke filled and noisy, perfect for a little cruiser. Have fun, Good Luck . ..  

Thanks and the inspector is lined up to come on over in a week to check everything out. thanks for the advice.  

The Inspector said the boat was in good condition. The reason for the re-figerglassing was the boat was used for racing and it was crashed by the crew.  

guest Guest

Its a boat that can travel the world.......so the cost is nothing for you will get a (I call them freedom boats) a boat that will take you anywhere. Not that many for sale and in good shape..... Good luck......  

Having traveled the world and knowing a bit about crossing the ponds, a 24' pocket yacht isn't the way to go, though some have, I wouldn't. Life aboard is a big set of compromises, especially for the other half, whom may not share the same level of enthusiasm as yourself. Stuffing that into a 24'er would be quite painful for more then a weekend in my way of thinking. Take the post from the "guest" whom has little else to do but to offer advice at 5 'till 4 in the morning, for what it's worth, skip the grain of salt and down the whole shaker full. Good luck with your project, let us know how it works out and send some pictures . . .  

Terry May Guest

Go Knots I owned a Seaforth 24 for many years it was a great boat not a good boat for racing but very safe. The boat was so stable in heavy weather that my wife fell asleep in 8 foot seas one night. I always felt safe on that boat it was easy to handle and very forgiving. I sold for it for $5000.00 to use the money to buy a house. The boat was in great shape and needed nothing. I'm looking to buy another Seaforth 24 or Precision 24 (same design) soon  

Pictures Soon I just put the Boat in the Water last week and pictures should be coming as soon and we get some decent weather. The boat barely rocks when i stand on the side and i weigh 250lbs!!! the boat is extremely stable and thanks to Terry I did decide to buy the boat because of his testimony.  

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sailawaybobby seaforth

seaforth owner. Hello, Just found this web site. I am also fortunate to own a seaforth. It is a lot of boat for a little price. I havn't sailed it as much as I would like but what I have did she's preformed flawlessly. I have had it out in 30 knot winds when I was the only boat in the bay and she owned it. Very stable and quite impressive for her size. I was crew on a Cal 31 that raced the Isla Mujers race to Cancun Mx. from St. Pete Fl. I would of felt safer on my Seaforth. I have some pictures of my boat but I cant figure out how to post them. I also got original paper work with it that has all the specifications. I will try and post those to if I'm able. Would be interested in seeing pictures of your inboard diesel and what it is. I understand that the originals from the last production line were renaults 8hp. This boat was originally diesel but factory converted to an outboard well. I would like to get the inboard back installed. Your prop and pitch would also be helpful for me to see and size. Thanks for posting this form.  

Noob here. Looking at a Seaforth 24

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1980 Pacific seacraft Seaforth

• Description

Seller's Description

This vessel has gone through a update and is ready to be passed on to the next sailor. You can visit restlessrudder web page to inquire about all of the work done. She has excellent sails lots of life left, with a main , 100% jib, 120genoa,spinnaker Engine 1GM10 Yanmar Engine hours unknown but has been completely gone over has ran perfectly for two years. Not one issue so far. With 6 gal tank Vessel comes titled and clear, Trailer is not titled but all bearings re-packed and new tires We installed a Wilton Crittenden head that we restored , no tank.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

From BlueWaterBoats.org :

At the extreme of ‘go small, go simple’ is the little Flicka 20. At an incredibly small 20 feet, few other boats can claim proven blue water capabilities. Flicka has crossed the oceans of the world, weathered severe storms and survived groundings on reefs with little damage. Yet this pint sized world cruiser can be popped onto a trailer and taken home.

Designed by Bruce Bingham along the lines of the Newport workboats of the 19th century, the Flicka 20 was originally introduced to the home-build market in 1972 before reaching production, first by Nor’ Star and then by Pacific Seacraft.

If you can get over the lack of deck space and finding place to stow your tender, you’ll find a boat that’s essentially solid, seaworthy and with the interior space of a boat 6 feet longer. She’s large enough to live in, and being so small she’s incredibly easy to handle. She sails well despite her short length and heavy displacement. These are some of the reasons people rationalize buying the Flicka 20, but perhaps the real reason is her charm and character; this little boat has quite the cult following.

The first line drawings of the Flicka were published in RUDDER magazine in March 1972 but the origins of the Flicka go back to the 1950’s when Bruce Bingham made some sketches of two derelict wooden sailboats on a river just south of Wickford in Rhode Island. Bingham later learned that they were workboats that had been used since 1840 by the fishermen who sailed out to the stormy Block Island Sound to work the fishery there. These boats were known as Newport boats and had a reputation for being fast, seaworthy boats that would bring home their crew safely. Bingham liked the rugged character of the Newport boats and upon finding the line drawings in a book he started modifying the lines into a new design which became the Flicka 20. The design was originally aimed at the home build market and the length was kept at 20 feet to make it affordable.

In the September of 1972  RUDDER published the first of a six part article on building a Flicka from ferrocement, which showed further refinements to the lines and interior. Rumor has it that the first ferrocement Flicka was built at a boat show as a demonstration project to promote the construction method. The boat failed to catch on as ferrocement construction was expensive and a lot of work for a small boat.  However, over the next five-year period, 400 sets of plans were reported sold, most of these boats built from GRP but at least one using carvel planking.

In 1974 a Flicka plug was made by Bingham and Katy Burke and sold to Nor’ Star Marine in California. In 1975 Nor’ Star started producing solidly built GRP hulls but at this stage there was no mold for the deck and cabin trunk. By February 1976, Nor’ Star was producing a GRP deck, cockpit and cabin truck. Their Flickas were either sold as kits or sub contracted to Westerley Marine for completion. This was a successful recipe which produced well constructed, high quality boats, regarded by many to be the most beautiful Flickas ever produced, with finely crafted and finished wood interiors. The winning partnership was brought to an end when Nor’ Star Marine closed down in 1977.

The Flicka was then sold to the then newly starting out Pacific Seacraft Corporation, who built a reputation for high quality construction and beautiful hand-crafted interiors. The builders at Pacific Seacraft modified the Flicka further by decreasing the radius of the cabin trunk crown and moving the deck hatch to the cabin top forward of the mast step.  By 1994 434 Flickas had been produced by Pacific Seacraft but in 2007 the company went bust. The brand name, molds and tools were bought at a bankruptcy auction by marine archaeologist Stephen Brodie and the company was moved to the East Coast where it was resurrected.

In 2001, the new Pacific Seacraft attempted to relaunch the Flicka design on the basis that they required an order of  four or five boats. Unfortunately, the order was not filled and the design was shelved. It is thought unlikely that the Flicka will ever be in production again but there are always Flickas out there for sale on the used boat market and for those who are interested in building their own, the plans and currently at least one hull and deck kit are apparently available now through Roy McBride at CKD boats in South Africa.

Configuration & Layout

The Flicka’s workboat heritage is clear to see in her strong sheer, bluff bow and low freeboard (for hauling nets). She has a full keel which draws 3 feet 3 inches and a simple transom-hung rudder. Her 1800 pounds of ballast is positioned well forward in the hull and is responsible for a large part of her total displacement.

In order to create a lot of space on a waterline of only 18 feet 2 inches the Flicka was designed with a relatively wide 8 feet beam, tall topsides, and a high coach roof. This design might suggest elements of a bathtub toy, however the Flicka is far from ugly and has an undeniable charm which attracts attention wherever she goes.

Most Flickas use a masthead sloop rig which is set from a short bowsprit. It’s a small rig with 106 square feet in the mainsail and two rows of reefing points, and a working jib of 137 square feet. Variations do exist including some that are fractionally rigged, while others employ a full cutter rig, though it is debateable whether there is any advantage in cutting up the sail area in an already small rig thereby creating extra windage from the extra halyard, sheeting lines and inner stay.  Several Flickas have been successfully converted to gaff and junk rigs and there is at least one yawl.

On deck you’ll find narrow side decks and relatively restricted access to the mast and foredeck. There’s little space to stow a tender, most owners tow theirs or stow it below. The cockpit is small and protected although comparatively large in comparison to the Flicka’s size. At 1 1/2″ the small cockpit drains have been an area of concern for some blue water sailors.

Bingham’s beamy hull allows for a capacious interior with 5 feet 11 inches of headroom and three full-sized berths. The interior is open-plan with no bulkhead separating the forepeak from the main cabin. Her fresh water supply is carried in a 20 gallon tank under the quarter berth.  The diesel fuel tank, which lives under the V-berth, holds 8 gallons, as does the holding tank. The standard inboard engine is the economical Yanmar 1GM10, a single-cylinder diesel of 9 horsepower.  Access to the inboard is afforded by a watertight hatch in the sole of the cockpit. With an inboard and enclosed head almost half the stowage space on the Flicka is lost and for that reason an outboard engine is the choice of many Flicka owners. With an outboard the fuel tank can be replaced with freshwater and a lot of extra space is created behind the companionway steps.

Construction

Being initally a home build boat you’ll find Flickas built to varying standards in a range of materials.

Pacific Seacraft Flickas were built in fiberglass, early hulls were hand laid in polyester resin while later hulls switched to osmosis resisting vinylester resin. The decks are fiberglass with a balsa core while areas with through deck hardware are cored in plywood. The interior is built from a single fiberglass pan which is bonded to the hull and lined with beautiful teak trim.

The mast is stepped in a stainless-steel tabernacle to allow easy removal for trailering as well as quick raising and lowering to avoid overhead obstacles.

Quality bronze fittings were used and the outboard chainplates were mounted through the hull with stainless steel backing plates. After 1980 enclosed heads with holding tanks became standard and the later models also come with custom bronze port lights, inboard engines and an excellent cruising rig by LeFiell.

Given the Flicka’s short waterline length, heavy displacement and small rig, it’s generally agreed she sails exceptionally well. Though most Flicka owners would agree that boat speed is not the number one priority, she is not a laggard by any means. According to Pacific Seacraft long passages of a 5-knot average are not uncommon. Owners report that she can easily sail 4 to 5 knots in the right conditions and can exceed 6 knots on a reach in winds of 20 knots or more. Her best point of sail is a beam to broad reach.

Like most heavy displacement boats, light air performance suffers. Many owners recommend the use of a drifter in 10 knots for a bit of extra go-go juice.

With her wineglass sections, short draft and 30% ballast ratio the boat is tender. Owners have also reported a tendency for weather helm. Tacking can be difficult in choppy conditions due to her tendency to pitch. Some owners have suggested that in certain weather conditions she can induce seasickness in even the hardiest of sailors but her motion is generally kind.

That aside, she is renowned for keeping her crew safe in a blow and she is a whole lot of fun to sail.

Buyer’s Notes

Flickas built by Pacific Seacraft are considered by many to be the one to go for due to their superior construction quality. Due to her solid construction and sensible design, the Flicka 20 has aged well. There have been no specific weaknesses that have come to light. Flickas tend to be well loved and in relatively good condition and have proven to be popular in the used boat market.

There is an active owner community. For further advice, boat listings and resources it is recommended buyers get in contact via the Flicka20.com website as well as the email discussion list on Yahoo Groups.

As of 2010 the asking prices for the boat is in the range of $10k – $50k USD depending on year and condition.

Links, References and Further Reading

» Flicka 20 information and resources at flicka20.com » Flicka 20 owners discussion group at Yahoo Groups » Flicka Review from Good Old Boat Magazine by John Vigor Nov/Dec 1999 » A Flicka Sailboat Story by Roy McBride » Flicka 20 info at CKD Boats , source of Flicka 20 Hull and Deck kits. » Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere by John Vigor , (Ch13, p77-82) an in depth look at the Flicka 20. ISBN:978-0939837328

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1978 pacific seacraft flicka 20.

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Seaforth Boat Rental

Rentals, charters, tours and more.

San Diego's boat rental and yacht charter company! Now with 4 locations. Coronado, Downtown, Harbor Island, and Mission Bay.

Seaforth Boat Rental has your ticket to San Diego's water ways covered. Looking for things to do here in San Diego? With two bays, an incredible coastline, year-round daily average temperatures of 70 degrees, and plenty of sun, you need to see San Diego from the water - and you can find all of that and more with Seaforth Boat Rentals! Our wide variety of adventure and excursion options offer plenty of fun and excitement for any group. So make the most of your next San Diego vacation and see why they call this America's Finest City.

 Our powerboat rental fleet is 16' to 56' and our sailboats range from 22' to 54'. Jet skis, kayaks, paddle boards, and fishing boats are also available. Seaforth Boat Rental has something for every budget and welcomes all experience levels. Call for reservations.

1715 Strand Way

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1641 Quivera Rd San Diego, CA 92109

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Seaforth Boat Rental is the longest established boat rental, charter, and tour company in San Diego. We’ve been a family-owned business since 1976. We offer everything and anything you can think of on the water. Our fleet ranges from 14’ fishing boats to 56’ yachts. Sailboats, powerboats, jetskis, and a variety of people power vessels are at your disposal for tours, cruises or custom adventures. We host daily wakeboarding sessions on Mission Bay for boarders of all levels. We are the only on-the-water pro-shop in San Diego, specializing is wakeboard lessons.

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San Diego, California, United States 1.45 miles

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San Diego, California, United States 1.47 miles

Mission Bay Aquatic Center

San Diego, California, United States 1.56 miles

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(619) 224-3383.

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July 17, 2024 By James Hebert

Top picks for summer boating fun in San Diego 

San Diego’s sparkling bay and ocean waters are beautiful to look at, but there’s nothing like getting out there for an up-close view by booking a summer boating adventure. And from tiki-boat tours to hot-tub cruises, San Diego’s got you covered. Here are a few ideas to float by your family or party crew for your next San Diego nautical happening. 

Tiki Time Bay Tours 

Going total tiki is easy (and a whole lot of fun) with Tiki Time Bay Tours , whose signature thatched-roof party boat plies San Diego Bay with a wide range of cruise options. The boat offers an open bar during every cruise (a bathroom, too), and tours are hosted by professional improvisers for that extra splash of entertainment. (“Our tours are designed with sarcasm, wit and fun — so buckle up!,” as Tiki Time puts it.) While individual tickets are available for a variety of bay tiki tours (both family-friendly and adult), your group can book the whole boat, too. 

Paddle Pub Mission Bay 

Not only can you party aboard a mini-paddle wheeler during a Paddle Pub cruise, you can even propel the boat yourself via pedal-power! But rest assured, pedaling is fully optional (the vessel does have a motor). The only requirement is to be ready to have a great time out on the sparkling waters of Mission Bay, whether via a private rental or a ticketed cruise. The fun starts at the Hyatt Regency Mission Bay Spa & Marina , where cruises begin. One key thing to know: While the Paddle Pub looks like a floating bar, all alcoholic beverages are BYOB. 

Go Pontoon Boating

For a family outing or a casual party on the water, it’s hard to beat a stable, roomy and fun pontoon boat. If you’re looking to rent one, a great place to start is Seaforth Boat Rentals , which offers four locations (Coronado, Downtown, Harbor Island, and Mission Bay) and has pontoon boats for hire in a variety of sizes. There’s even an 11-passenger, double-decker number complete with a water slide, although that one requires a Coast Guard-licensed captain; most others can be rented and driven by anyone 18 or older. 

Renting a Jet Ski 

If you feel a need for a little more speed in your on-water adventures, San Diego has numerous jet-ski rental outlets. On Mission Bay, try the venerable Mission Bay Sportcenter ; on San Diego Bay, Luxury Jet Ski Rentals (based in Coronado and South Bay) and San Diego Jet Ski Rentals (at the Coronado Ferry Landing ) are among the options. Remember: If you do rent a ski, watch your speed, monitor other boat traffic and keep safety very much in mind. 

Go Hot Tub Boating

What could be better than floating in a hot tub on a balmy San Diego day? How about floating in a hot tub that’s on a boat floating in the bay? Yep, that is an actual thing, and San Diego’s Hot Tub Cruisin can make it happen for you. The company rents two sizes of hot-tub-equipped boats that accommodate 8-12 people and that you can drive yourself on Mission Bay. And for the summer, Hot Tub Cruisin also offers a special captained cruise for up to six people that takes you out to watch the nightly SeaWorld San Diego fireworks show. There’s also a sound system onboard for that extra party vibe. 

Taking a Speedboat Tour 

If you don’t want to do the driving but DO want to zoom fast through San Diego’s waters, consider booking a speedboat or jet boat tour. One great option for thrill seekers: Flagship Cruises & Events’ Patriot jet boat, which offers high-speed rides (or are they flights?) across the waters of San Diego Bay. You’ll get to see a lot of the beautiful harbor on this 30-minute trip, but don’t blink — the Patriot zips along at up to 50 mph. But do prepare to get a little wet. (Ponchos are provided.) 

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3 Hours + Fuel Sail Club: 25% off

Bareboat Charter

Captain charter, bareboat & captain charters available, rent with captain, 9 passengers + captain, 3 hour rental available, captain charters, rent without captain, 10 passengers, bareboat charters, max of 6 passengers including children.

(not to exceed 800 lbs.)

2, 3, or 4 Hour Rentals Available

(not to exceed 1200 lbs.)

Coronado, Downtown

10 passengers.

(not to exceed 1,200lbs)

(not to exceed 1700lbs)

Downtown, Coronado

11 passengers.

(not to exceed 1,700lbs)

1.5 and 3 Hour Rentals Available

Max of 12 passengers including children.

(not to exceed 1700 lbs.)

2 or 4 Hour Rentals Available

24 passengers, max of 12 passengers, max of 4 passengers, 90 mins rental.

No Captain Required

Rent your boat today!

Max of 10 passengers, 2 hour rental.

2 Hrs + Fuel

2 Hours + Fuel